Sunday, February 2, 2014

Don't Assume Anything!


Photo credit: mrmac04 from morguefile.com

I was thinking recently how people get themselves in such messy situations when they rush things.

Flashback to an experience I had several years ago.

We had been dating about a month. We got along pretty well, and things appeared to be heading towards a committed relationship. Given that I'm not into "juggling dates," I had stopped going to the online dating sites, and had told the other two women I was writing to that I had started seeing someone. Judging by her increased interest in spending time with me, as well as the increased physical intimacy, I assumed she had done the same. Turns out that wasn't the case.

As a relative newbie to online dating back then, and also someone who really didn't have much experience dating outside of my "friend and acquaintance pool," I was unprepared for the kind of issues that can come up when you date people you have no prior connection with.

So, there we were, sitting at a coffee shop having a conversation, and I must have brought up something about her being "my girlfriend" or something of the sort.

And she says "But I've been seeing so and so as well."

"What?" (with confused look)

"Oh, I've been spending Fridays with so and so, and Saturdays with you."

Tensely, trying to hold it together, I respond, "But I thought we were becoming a couple?"

"Well, I like you a lot" (touches my hand) "but I don't know if you're "the one?"

"How can you know something like that for sure after a month?"

"I don't know." (looks away) "I didn't think it was a big deal. Are you angry?"

I pause, briefly surveying the room as my body began shaking. "No. No. I'm not angry."

"You seem angry?"

"No. I'm not."

"I'm sorry. I just don't know."

About ten minutes later we parted ways.

Looking back on this situation now, there are plenty of signs and missteps that were taken. First of all, there were the assumptions both of us made that ultimately led to things unraveling. Next, there were the signs I missed that clearly pointed to something not being quite "right" about the relationship unfolding. Friday wasn't the only day marked off on her calendar. I actually only had two or three evenings to choose from to spend time with her. And I had no idea what she did with the rest of her free time. In addition, she didn't really make a lot of contact in between dates - it seemed like I was often the one initiating contact. At the time, I thought it was because she wanted me to "chase her," to be "the man," but obviously that wasn't the issue really.

Overall, the whole situation speaks to the lesson "Don't assume anything." Which I think is best manifested by having a curiosity and openness to not knowing. Which isn't terribly easy all the time, but in my opinion, is the path of most joy and least misery.

Instead of assuming the other person is dating multiple people, or only dating you, you don't assume at all. Sometimes, things just naturally become clear over time. Other times, someone has to bring the issue up for direct discussion.

It seems to me that if you're opting to date multiple people at the same time, being upfront about that earlier in the process rather than later is better. I'm not talking on the first few dates here. But if you're spending more time together with someone, with the physical intimacy increasing, it only seems fair to be as clear as you can about where things stand.

On the flip side, if you are someone used to rejecting out of hand anyone who opts to date multiple people early on (the first month or two), you might consider rethinking that. My mid-20s novice self couldn't handle dating a woman who was seeing someone else, but if I were in the same situation now - knowing we had only been going out for about a month - I might handle it differently. We hadn't had sex yet, and I could have kept that in place for a little longer to see what happened between us. Yes, it's a bit of a blow to not be the only one, but again, we're talking a month here.

I say this only because there's a lot of unknowns in the dating world these days. It's easy to get trapped in absolute rules and approaches that may not be serving you.

Don't assume you know based upon X, Y, or Z. Be more curious and open to things not being exactly as you expect, or hope for.







31 comments:

  1. Ahh, I remember this story. Here's how different dating in your 40s and 50s is from dating in your mid-20s: I've seen you refer to this story several times in the past few years, and it had never occurred to me that there was no sex involved. Heh. My 18yo son, btw, who's been with his first serious girlfriend for about 8-9 months now, was horrified at the very idea of dating multiple people. In my age group, though, that's implied. It's more of the other way around - whenever my dating pool narrows itself down to one, just because all other candidates were a bad fit and I have no new ones yet; or when I want to take a break from OKC and disable my profile, but am still seeing a few people from there - I almost feel like I have to apologize, explain myself, and assure the guy that I'm not trying to sneak exclusivity on him without his consent ("hey, I've disabled my profile, but that's just because I'm tired of handling all those messages and want to take a break, nothing to worry about, it's still business as usual" etc etc).

    Here's a story I have, but from a different angle. This happened on date three or four with the man who later became my latest bf (currently my latest ex). Date went well, and at the end it, for our next date, he invited me to his place for late lunch/early dinner. I said okay. Now his place happens to be 70 miles from mine. I'm a big girl and understand that, when you come that far to see a guy at his place, there will be certain expectations. Which I was also okay with - my thinking went something like - oh he wants to take things to that level, he wants a test drive, that's fine by me, I could use one too.

    That's when he said "I have to warn you. I cannot do casual". Adding something about putting his heart on the line and it being completely on him because he's the one taking that risk, or something similar.

    Now I am sitting in his car completely puzzled. I don't get this sentimental heart-on-the-line stuff... What's that supposed to mean? I was getting this sneaky feeling that, if I followed through with our date and came to his apartment for that dinner, that the very fact of me showing up for dinner would automatically mean that he and I were now exclusive. And I don't like being roped into that stuff, automatically, by default, or in any other way where the two sides did not have the talk and have not both explicitly agreed on being a couple. And, at date 3 or 4, I was still pretty far from knowing whether I want to be exclusive with that man. I have to admit, I did not like that comment of his one bit. But hey, at least he warned me.

    (have to break this into 2 comments...)

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  2. continued from above...

    So I told him I'd have to think about it. I went home and called a girlfriend who knew more about dating than I did. Next day, I emailed the guy, canceled the dinner date, asked to change it to a date at a public place instead, and told him that I needed a lot of time and needed to take it slow. We dated for another month before becoming a couple, and staying together for two years. I was still seeing other people during that month. And by seeing I mean, well, use your imagination.

    Aside from how things ended two years later, I'd say he and I handled this well. I've got to give him a ton of credit for having warned me. Here's what would've happened if he hadn't. I would've assumed that he just wants a bit of the casual. I would've come to his place and we would've had sex. He would've assumed we were now exclusive, while I'd have still been thinking we were not. A comedy of errors would have ensued and we would have most likely ended up never becoming a couple. He'd have a dating story to tell people about the weird slut he'd dated two years ago, and I'd have a story about the crazy guy who single-handedly decided I was his girlfriend and forgot to tell me.

    It's like you said, never assume. Except, in my age group, I would change that to "never assume you're exclusive unless you've had that conversation and both agreed on it". Always always assume that you are not the only one; and that, even if you are at the moment, the person you're dating is still open to new options.

    Also, I read the end of your post as advising readers to tell the other person up front that you're dating multiple, is that correct? Because I've always been under the impression that it is implied, and that it is bad form to talk to your date about other people you're seeing. They know you're seeing other people, but they do not care to hear the details. I know I don't :) Am I missing something?

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  3. I guess that experience taught me a lot eventually :)

    The exclusivity issue has always struck me as a place where it's really hard to lay down even helpful guidelines. Other than doing your best to be honest and not rush things. Which seems to me is exactly what you and your ex did.

    "Also, I read the end of your post as advising readers to tell the other person up front that you're dating multiple, is that correct? Because I've always been under the impression that it is implied, and that it is bad form to talk to your date about other people you're seeing."

    I would agree with everyone else about not going into details about other people you're seeing. Who wants to hear such stuff, right? However, I've never quite agreed with the idea that it's just implied that everyone is dating multiple people at once. Because not everyone is.At least after a certain point.

    One of the big issues is the clashing of differing timetables on exclusivity. I almost never went longer than 3 or 4 weeks before basically choosing one person to focus on. Some folks seem fine going on for several weeks or even months dating more than one person before making even a private decision to focus. Which is different from two people agreeing that they want to be together exclusively.

    Some seem to mistakenly conflate the two. They've decided they're going to focus on you, and assume that since you haven't said otherwise, that you're now a couple.

    On the other hand, some folks just assume things are casual because nothing has been said otherwise. And since they either aren't comfortable addressing escalating behaviors, or don't really think sex or spending more time together is a big deal, the other person can end up like myself - kind of blindsided by the news that they aren't the only one.

    So, what I'm saying above is not about going into details about others, or even long winded justifications for why you're dating or not dating multiple people.

    It's about learning to pay attention for signs that things are becoming a bit more serious, and then being willing to say something about where you're at about it all. Maybe you don't necessarily have to say you're still dating other people, but I tend to think that after a certain point, it turns into trying to hide that information from the other person.

    In other words, you might be able to just say you like someone, but you need more time before making a commitment after a month or six weeks. But then you spend more time together, things get a bit more heated, and requests for "more time" start to get problematic.

    The way I see it, a lot of the delaying conversations and "keeping your options open" for extended periods of time is really about either a) fears of getting tied down too soon and/or b) fears of scaring off the other person, for various reasons.

    In general, I think the first month to six weeks is pretty much open and subject to change. After this point, I think it's wise to start checking in about where things are. Even if the check in somehow ends the connection.

    I have a feeling that the woman I was dating in the story was used to keeping things casual for extended periods. Probably many months. Which wouldn't have worked for me even if that particular conversation had unfolded differently.

    The opposite is also true. I've been in a couple of situations where the other person wanted exclusivity almost right away. Which is just a big red flag in my book.

    Wildly different timetables on this stuff just doesn't work, and it's better to find that out sooner rather than later.

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  4. When I was a teenager and in college (late '70's, early 80's) the fashion in my social circles was to date one person at a time. I thought everybody did this and so I was surprised (and hurt) to find out a guy I had started a relationship with was in fact seeing other women the first time it happened. I pretty much adopted the no assumptions rule after that. I didn't automatically assume anyone I was dating was also dating others, nor did I assume they weren't. They guys I became serious with were the ones who wanted to see me every day or nearly, so exclusivity became obvious early on without any discussion about it. Exception being my last serious r'ship several years back. We discussed being exclusive in terms of not having sex with other people, but that it didn't mean we were a couple after only 2 weeks in.

    I did date one fellow who told me on our first date that he usually dates more than one person at a time and asked me how I felt about that. I told him I was okay with it, but if I fell in love with him I'd want to re-negotiate. :) I didn't as it turned out and bowed out after 3 mos.

    I really don't want/need someone telling me they are dating other people up front. We will either get closer, or we won't. If someone wants to be "the only one" in terms of dating or sex, it's up to them to make that clear if it didn't already become obvious by words and actions and spending a lot of time together. Since I haven't multi-dated I suppose I don't understand the timelines involved. It seems to me it wouldn't take too many weeks to realize you like one person more than the others. And if someone feels a relationship isn't progressing out of the casual level, isn't it their responsibility to exit?

    I guess I feel the onus is on the person who wants to know where they stand to bring up the topic if it hasn't come up naturally.

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    1. "Since I haven't multi-dated I suppose I don't understand the timelines involved. It seems to me it wouldn't take too many weeks to realize you like one person more than the others."

      I haven't looked at it this way. To me, I either realize I like a person enough to get serious, or I realize I do not want things to progress with a person, or I still do not know them enough to be able to tell one way or another. I can usually tell if the first is the case after 5-6 dates. But not after 2-3.

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  5. "I guess I feel the onus is on the person who wants to know where they stand to bring up the topic if it hasn't come up naturally."

    I agree.

    "I really don't want/need someone telling me they are dating other people up front."

    I never wanted that either. In fact, I would agree with anyone else offering advice that it's best not to go there in the beginning.

    It seems to me that a fair amount of time things will unfold naturally enough to not have to worry too much about all this.

    However, the issue of differing timetables comes up a lot in dating writing. As does differing views about commitment (especially early on) and what it means to be together. When I read the comments on blogs like Moxie's, or Natalie Lue's, even Evan's to some extent, people seem all over the board. Some wouldn't blink an eye dating multiple people for months without any sort of major commitment, while others are outraged that someone might even think of dating more than one person. And these people sometimes end up on dates together, and then when things implode wonder what the hell happened.

    This is for the folks who are on differing timetables, or who aren't sure what's happening and would like some clarity.

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  6. I remember when I started reading Moxie's blog about 3 yrs. ago there were some commenters at the time who seemed to equate exclusivity as a half step below engagement. It was a HUGE deal because it meant giving up their options! A couple of them believed only losers dated one person at a time. I found this very strange. To me, exclusivity was nothing more than focusing on one person and seeing where it went. No biggy.

    You are right, definitions of exclusive, commitment, bf/gf are all over the place in relationship forums without even getting into timelines.

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  7. "To me, exclusivity was nothing more than focusing on one person and seeing where it went. No biggy."

    I've had a few of my guy friends define dating as being exclusive, but with no obligations... "we are still feeling each other out and do not yet know how it'll end, but we have to be exclusive, but you cannot give me a hard time for things like not contacting you all day, because we're still just dating". One serious relationship I was in, was kind of like that. It didn't last. I was recently offered this arrangement again and turned it down. I told the guy that to me, this would feel like being on call... sitting around the house, not able to meet other people, waiting for him to call so we can meet. I don't know if I could progress to a boyfriend/girlfriend from something like that. The way I see it, by getting the other person to be exclusive, you have placed certain restrictions on that person. That person is no longer available. For that reason, it would behoove you to make regular plans with that person, and otherwise be a part of their life. Or am I wrong? I'm still new to this. My ex and I became bf/gf pretty much at the same time that we became exclusive (he still introduced me to everyone as "my friend" for another nine months, but all the arrangements and obligations were there).

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  8. "The way I see it, by getting the other person to be exclusive, you have placed certain restrictions on that person. That person is no longer available. For that reason, it would behoove you to make regular plans with that person, and otherwise be a part of their life. "

    Yes that is essentially how I see it. If the two of you are focusing on each other you ARE making regular plans. You are 'unavailable' because you are choosing to focus on each other and see where it goes. If you become close, you become part of each others lives. If you find you are not a great match, you break it off.

    Goldie for me this has happened naturally without any grand declarations or deep discussions. I believe all relationships start out casual. Some move on to become serious, some don't move on and end. If a guy told me he wanted to be exclusive, but not make regular plans or contact me all day that would be an indication that he wasn't interested in anything more than casual. I wouldn't consider that focusing on each other.

    I can see an offer to be casual-yet-exclusive would be unappealing for anyone who hoped to find a serious relationship. I also don't see how someone who doesn't want to make plans or contact the person they are dating regularly could expect to hold that person's interest.

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  9. "we are still feeling each other out and do not yet know how it'll end, but we have to be exclusive, but you cannot give me a hard time for things like not contacting you all day, because we're still just dating"

    I tend to agree with Selena that natural progression in whatever direction is what often happens. The majority of my experiences (both those developing into relationships and those that ended) didn't require grand and deep conversations either.

    In terms of the quote above, what I see is an attempt to pace things. There's a difference between making regular plans with someone you're interested in, and being in a place where you're contacting each other everyday or multiple times a day. The former could easily mean setting up dates every week and perhaps talking a few times in between. Which actually is how my current relationship began, and also most of the other long or shorter term relationships I've been in began. A gradual increase in connection over time, as interest and familiarity develop. (Note that this gradual probably occurs within a matter of a few months.)

    I'm kind of skeptical, though, of leaping from going on a couple of dates to talking everyday and seeing each other a lot or all the time. In my experience, that's been a ticket to crash and burn. Because the frequency of, and increasing intimacy easily blind you to other issues.

    The middle ground to me is that with exclusivity there's a deliberate, intentional increase in attention paid and quality time spent together from both sides. What that looks like will depend in large part on how the connection started. If you began by having a couple of dates with a week or two in between with not much contact, then an increase to weekly dates with a phone call or two in between might be exactly the right direction. If you began with more contact from the start, then it might be fine to move into something like daily or nearly daily calls/texts + weekly or twice weekly dates. But neither of these really guarantees that both people are viewing things in a serious manner. Only time together (or not) really teases that out.

    Goldie, one thing I notice in your comments is that you don't want to be pinned down, but you also don't like the idea of a guy asking for some sort of exclusivity in the beginning that includes not calling/contacting you daily. Those two seem in contradiction to me. What do you think would be a good middle ground?






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  10. Nathan, I actually don't even like talking on the phone and rarely do. I wasn't the one that mentioned the daily calls in that conversation. The part about daily calls and contact was his example of how, even though we'd be exclusive, I shouldn't think he owes me anything - whatever happens, happens. There was no mention of gradual increase of contact in his deal, no mention of making any plans together whatsoever. No weekly dates, no nothing. I said no because my first relationship after my divorce was like this. Not just at the beginning, but from beginning to end. He'd either leave me hanging on weekends completely, or make plans that sounded like I was an afterthought. Basically what it boiled down to was, on a Saturday night I'd come over for dinner, a movie on the couch, and sex. Rinse, repeat. At least it was a different movie each time, lol This guy is actually my good friend and he was going through a super difficult family situation at that time; so he gets a break from me for that period of our lives. But I will admit that getting sporadic contact from a guy, or last-minute invitations to come over if he's in the mood, (or none if he's not), would make me feel very much like a booty call and a low priority in his life. (Which at the time, for that guy, I probably was, because like I said, he had a LOT of bad stuff happening at the time.)

    Plus, it's inconvenient. I have a lot of interests and like to get out and do things on weekends. Even if I stay in, I have a home and a family to take care of, so I then make plans to do housework on the weekends. Either way, I need to plan ahead. Asking me to keep my weekends open, and then to sit around my house alone IN CASE he wants to do something together... but he might not... that is asking me for more than I can give. I would be miserable with this arrangement; I would be happier being single than I would with this arrangement. So I would have to say no to that.

    Weekly dates and some contact in between, early on, would be a good arrangement for me. "Waiting to see what happens", would not.

    Also, I wouldn't go to exclusivity from "a couple of dates". I'd need, probably 6-8 weeks and 6-8+ dates to make that decision.

    "There's a difference between making regular plans with someone you're interested in, and being in a place where you're contacting each other everyday or multiple times a day."

    That's the thing, he indicated that he did not want to commit to making regular plans. Then again, this guy is also my good friend, so I know his situation as well. He works crazy hours and takes care of his grandkids on weekends. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that he just plain does not have the time to date anyone right now; and as such, should not have asked me. (Then again, at the time he asked, I wasn't ready to date either.)

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  11. I think it's strange a man would tell a woman he didn't want to commit to making plans as an invitation to start dating. Come across like: "I already know I'm not that into you, but let's get together once in awhile anyway!"


    Wonder how successful that strategy is for him.

    In the case of your friend who has his grandkids on weekends, you are probably right that he doesn't have the time to date anyone right now and should not have asked you.

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  12. Goldie, that whole situation doesn't sound great to me either. I wouldn't want to be on call and waiting around like that for something that might not happen either.

    I get the sense that some folks put up with this kind of arrangement because either they don't think they can find anything better, or they hope it's temporary. The last time I had something like that happen - also with a friend by the way - I ended it after about a month. She was still a mess from a previous relationship, and I felt like an afterthought mostly. Although part of me wanted to give it a chance, the idea of spending X number of months in limbo in hopes of something developing at some point just didn't appeal.

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  13. Yup. I figure these guys are just strapped for time, so they give what they think is the best they can and think that's enough. But sometimes when a person is THAT busy, maybe the best they can is not to offer anything to anybody - not to make promises that you know you cannot keep. And not tie the other person down if you have limited availability, because that other person can find someone that's actually available.

    Now I feel kind of bad for that Austin dude from Evan's blog, go figure :) I guess his letter pushed buttons with me because that used to be my ex's occasional complaint - that I was ignoring him and taking him for granted... those exact words. I gave him as much time as he wanted, but he also wanted my undivided attention during that time... it's pretty hard to gaze into a guy's eyes for 24 hours straight... if that was easy, there wouldn't be staring contests, lol But I digress.

    Anyway, I tried that arrangement with my friend because it was my first serious relationship after divorce and I didn't know any better. I did tell him (and my recent ex as well) that I was still trying things this way and that, to find out what a healthy relationship should be like, because I'd never been in one. It wasn't working for me, so I left. And when I was offered another, I said that I'd already tried this type of thing and it would not work for me. You were right to walk away, as well.

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  14. "Now I feel kind of bad for that Austin dude from Evan's blog, go figure :) "

    LOL Goldie. Having any point of view other than "poor Austin" was a waste of time on that blog. Became very tiresome and pointless to keeping reading it.

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  15. The thing about hyper busy folks is that they really can't sustain a significant relationship. They might want to, but at the end of the day, all they can offer is table scraps.

    I also think that plenty of people use the "busy" excuse to maintain some level of distance and casualness. Whereas the truly busy just can't hack it for whatever reason, the fake busy are being strategic. Some want to have "options." Others want to prioritize other things.

    Goldie, your ex almost sounds like the opposite in some ways. Wanting a lot more attention than you - or many others - could realistically offer.

    Seems to me a key to success here is finding someone with compatible "attention" needs.

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    1. Nathan, it was an odd arrangement. We'd meet on weekends and 1-2 weeknights and during that time, all my attention had to be on him or else he didn't feel appreciated. (True story, he once went off on me for "having ignored" him, after I spent 15 minutes while I was at his place, texting back and forth with my son trying to clear my schedule for mine and the ex's next date night, that my son had accidentally scheduled something on that required my presence.) Then for the rest of the week, he would fall off the face of the earth. I once went off on him when he left on a trip across country and didn't text me until HOURS after his plane had landed. I would've appreciated knowing that he'd had a safe flight, you know. I do agree that he and I had completely incompatible attention needs; and that trying to meet his only left me exhausted and starting to lose touch with reality from being so damn tired all the time. Hopefully he's got a better match now, and hope that I'll have a better match too when I meet someone new.

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    2. There's something a bit off about an adult wanting constant attention like that. And the fact that he didn't offer much in return really sounds pretty narcissistic to me.

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    3. Thanks for the reality check man :) Yea, on an instinctive level I still miss him... I was at the airport this weekend waiting for my flight and caught myself checking out every skinny, balding, academic-looking guy over 50yo and under 5'10"... must've made their collective day haha But thinking rationally, I *know* I am better off. We had some very good moments, but on the whole, the relationship was not viable and more importantly, it was turning me into a person I did not quite like :( And the search continues...

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  16. The Austin post felt like a set up. I resonated with his general situation, but also noticed something off about his attitude. I'm guessing Evan knew that some would cue in on his rather smug assurance and sort of detached attitude about his girlfriend, but he offered nothing in terms of an "in" for discussing how people in relationships with hyper busy and unavailable partners act. Which in my view is part of the issue.

    It's not a good idea to be like Austin's girlfriend seems to be, but I don't think it's very helpful to be like Austin might have been in the relationship either. We only have so much info about their situation, so who knows for sure. However, the tone of the letter just doesn't sound like someone who was fully engaged and loving, and didn't receive much in return.

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    1. Obviously I agree Nathan but anyone who tried to suggest that was shot down and accused of trying to always make the man "wrong". Over and over and over no matter how carefully, or thoughtfully alternative POV's were expressed they couldn't possibly be considered by a few of the more voracious commenters.

      I have to give Goldie props for hanging in there and trying longer than anyone else who proposed a more balanced view of the situation.

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    2. LOL Selena, I just don't know when to quit! :) I thought the few "opposing"(?) posts were very balanced and reasonable. Not one person said that the girlfriend was right and Austin, wrong.

      I hate to say this, but the whole thing now makes me wonder if there was ever an Austin, like you said Nathan. Who would write a letter like that on a night before breaking up what they think is a good relationship with a good woman who they know loves them in her own way? any man I know (my X included!! yeah, I said it) would be far too saddened and depressed to sit down and type up a letter to a blog about what an awesome decision-maker he is.

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    3. Yeah, it's a strange letter. I can't imagine any of my male friends or family members writing something like that either. But it still could be real. The relative anonymity of the internet emboldens some folks to say things they'd never otherwise say in public.

      The way I see it, Evan had a particular point he wanted to illustrate, and that's it. Those who saw other things weren't going to fair well. Especially anyone that questioned the "inherent goodness" of Austin. Like I said, I sympathized with him because I have been in that situation. But that doesn't make him faultless.

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  17. Yes, I had a hard time imagining any guy who was actually going to break up the next day going to that much - wordy- trouble. That's what felt contrived - like some guy made it up because he reads EMK and thought he might print it. Some dude's getting a kick out of the blog attention. Maybe because he has a hard time keeping the attention of women in real life?

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    1. Well, looks like I might be banned from that blog for expressing that opinion. Sheesh, and sigh.

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    2. Wow, I'm afraid to even go read that. And, bummer :((( Truthfully, idk if I can call myself a valuable contributor to that blog at this time in my life. After all, I'm at a point right now where I'm okay with spending the rest of my life alone, unless a very good, healthy match turns up; and the relationship I want, though I do not have a clear picture of what I want it to look like exactly, might veer far from the traditional "boyfriend in 3 months - move in together in 18 months - marriage - kids(???)" model. Since I cannot offer the blog readers the advice that'll get them the life they want, I'm thinking maybe why bother. OTOH, I've been having a great time reading (both posts and comments, including yours) and commenting at Moxie's lately. It seems more in line with the stage of life I am at now.

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    3. I enjoy your comments on both blogs as well as here. You have plenty of insight to offer even if you aren't 'husband hunting'. (I'm not either btw).

      I thought I might have been banned because there was about an hour delay before my last comment was posted. So I guess I'm not?

      I think there is a good crop of commenters on Moxie's blog right now. Much more thoughtful (and kinder) than some of those from a couple years back.

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  18. I don't think any of us here fit Evan's target audience. However, no one has the monopoly on relationship wisdom, regardless of who the target audience is.

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